Ralph Cagle, sworn in as Wisconsin State Bar president June 24, came to Wisconsin first as a politico, not a lawyer. Raised near Providence, Rhode Island, he earned a master’s degree at the Eagleton Institute of Practical Politics at Rutgers University, then moved to Madison in 1968 when he was hired by State Sen. Fred Risser (D-Madison) as head of the Democratic caucus staff.
Three years later, Cagle became assistant to then-Assembly Speaker Norman Anderson and enrolled in law school as well. Years later, he would end up teaching the General Practice Course at the UW Law School, renamed as the Lawyering Skills Program, and leaving a lasting imprint on generations of Wisconsin attorneys.
Q: You have been teaching new lawyers-to-be for many years. What’s the biggest difference between law students you teach now and those you saw 20 years ago?
A: First, they are carrying a great deal of school debt and their employment prospects are not as good as they were in the past. But, they are pretty realistic about that and generally more positive about their futures than some might expect. Their generation is deeply embedded in the electronic and cyber world. This may explain their being quieter and less outgoing than the stereotype of lawyers. They see relationships differently. They tend to prefer online interactions than in-person contact. I find them less likely to stop by my office to talk, even though I openly invite them to do so. They would rather pose questions and career concerns online. I prefer not giving email answers to “where am I going in my career” kind of questions.
Q: What’s the most important advice you can give a new lawyer?
A: Be curious. Ask smart questions. Listen. Observe. You have so much to learn after law school. There are lawyers and others who know what you need to know. Many, if not most, will share their knowledge and experience freely and openly, but you may have to initiate that engagement. Identify and cultivate good mentors and sponsors.
Q: I know you are a frequent author and national speaker and trainer on negotiation, mediation and the professional responsibilities of lawyers. That opens up so many questions. Why do lawyers get such a bad rap?
A: Actually, as individuals, I don’t think lawyers do get a bad rap. Most people think highly of lawyers they know; those who serve and lead in their communities, or who they see at their kids’ soccer games and those who have represented and often helped them through unfamiliar or sometimes challenging legal situations. What draws criticism is what lawyers sometimes have to do to represent their clients. There is very little “happy law.” Most law deals with difficult aspects of life, is complicated and often involves one party winning with another party or parties feeling that they lost, sometimes unfairly. In “To Kill a Mockingbird,” Miss Maudie Atkinson, Atticus Finch’s neighbor, tried to explain to Jem and Scout Finch their father’s job as a lawyer. Miss Maudie said, “There are some men in this world who are born to do our unpleasant jobs for us. Your father is one of them.” I think that’s pretty accurate.
